Sincere Atheists and Honest Thieves

Founder-Acharya of the world-wide Hare Krishna Movement, Brahma Sampradaya Acharya

Outlaws—everyone becomes his own authority

Umapati: Is there such a thing as a sincere atheist...

Prabhupada: Eh?

Umapati: ...who benefits by austerity?

Prabhupada: Atheist? Atheist? How he's sincere?

Umapati: That's what I... That's what I'm asking.

Prabhupada: Honest thief? It is contradictory. If I say, "Here is an honest thief," is that a good designation, honest thief?

Umapati: Well, in that case, that's so. You're right. It's absurd. Yes.

Prabhupada: So...

Yasomatinandana: A sincere atheist...

Umapati: But there are those who appear... At least, they think, they feel they are sincere when they go through austerities, but they won't accept Krishna consciousness as, at this point in their, in their existence.

Prabhupada: No, some atheists say that "We are Godless because nobody has convinced us about the existence of God." That is honesty. That is honesty. But there are rascals, however you may convince him, he'll not take it. That is rascaldom.

Yasomatinandana: Believe in God.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hrdayananda: So the honest ones become devotees?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hrdayananda: We were all...

Prabhupada: If he's honest, then he must take.

Yasomatinandana: We were all atheists, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Yasomatinandana: We were all atheists.

Prabhupada: Yes. If you, ...if an atheist is honest, then when he's convinced, he must accept Krishna. That is honesty. If after convincing him, he does not take, that is dishonesty.

Umapati: Yes.

Prabhupada: This is dishonesty.

Umapati: But there's a quality in this age that one does not accept defeat philosophically, philosophical defeat. If one is presented with philosophically sound arguments, it is a tendency today to refuse to accept the superiority of Krishna consciousness philosophy over any other philosophy.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Umapati: It's very popular to put all philosophies in the same... "Well, that's philosophy," they say. They say that "Everybody has his opinion. That's your opinion," they say.

Prabhupada: No.

Umapati: So no one will accept any kind of superior philosophy. It's very difficult to discuss these things among them.

Prabhupada: No, then everyone, if becomes superior, then where is the question of philosophy? If everyone is superior himself, then there is no question of philosophy. Is there any necessity? You are superior, I am superior; then where is the question of discussing philosophy?

Umapati: That is trying to be God. He's trying... Then we are always God.

Prabhupada: Then philosophy becomes null and void. As soon as everyone becomes his own authority, then philosophy becomes null and void. There is no necessity of philosophy.

Umapati: That is the difficulty of our age.

Prabhupada: That means they are rascals. Mudhah. If you do not accept philosophy, you do not accept authority, that means all rascals.

Hrdayananda: You said, "alpa-medhasah..."

Prabhupada: Outlaws, they are called outlaws. Just the outlaws, they do not accept any authority, government authority, or authority of the law, they're called outlaws. Rejected.

Umapati: Yeah, well, this is a nation of outlaws.

Prabhupada: So they are rejected. If anyone, everyone becomes his own authority, then it is chaos.

Umapati: Well, that is the fashion today.

Prabhupada: Yes. Fashion means...

Umapati: It's called "Do your own thing."

Prabhupada: No, who are you to say me, "Do your own thing"? Then you become master. You are directing me. Why should you direct me, "Do your own thing"? You stop. Don't talk. If your philosophy accepted that everyone is authority, you cannot say, "Do your own work." Why should you say? Then you become authority. You should not speak at all.

Karandhara: That is also a philosophy.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Karandhara: That is also a philosophy.

Prabhupada: What is that philosophy?

Karandhara: That "Do your own thing" is also a philosophy.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is a philosophy. Why you are dictating? You'd better stop. Don't talk. That's all. You have no facility for talking. Have you?

Umapati: No, I haven't.

Prabhupada: Then? You keep yourself satisfied with your own philosophy. I keep myself satisfied with my philosophy. There is no need of talking.

Hrdayananda: Jaya.

Prabhupada: And that is good. If a foolish man does not talk, it is good for him and good for others. Because he'll talk foolish. Better not to talk. That is good. That... Infectious diseased man... what is called? Quarantine.

Karandhara: Quarantine.

Prabhupada: He's put separately so that he may not poison others. He may not poison others. So that is the position of the self-sufficient authority.

Yasomatinandana: In Gujarati we call it: bhanji moti laksmim.(?) When the palm is closed it is worth lakh rupees, but when it is open, it doesn't mean anything. A foolish person, when he talks, he reveals everything.

Prabhupada: Yes. Foolish person means busy rascal. There are four kinds of division: lazy intelligent and busy intelligent and lazy rascal and busy rascal. The first-class man is lazy intelligent, and second class, busy intelligent, and third class, lazy rascal, and fourth class, busy rascal. A rascal, if he's busy, then what he will do? He'll simply do harm. That's all.

Karandhara: Create havoc.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Karandhara: Create havoc.

Prabhupada: Havoc, create havoc. Just as they are doing now. All rascals, they are very busy.

Yasomatinandana: Creating atom bombs.

Prabhupada: Ah, therefore the whole world is in confusion. All rascals, they are busy. What is the use of such business? Like monkey. Monkey's very busy, always, but doing harm. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, ugra-karmanah kshayaya jagato 'hitah. These rascals, they are busy just to destroy the whole world and do the mischief. That's all. Actually, they are doing so. That we also... In English language, sometimes it is said, "A sharp razor in the hands of a child." The child... That is this imitation. They want to imitate their father. So if he imitates the razor sharp, then he will create havoc. So these rascals, they have got now all power, and therefore creating havoc. They do not know how to use it. According to Vedic principle, the shudras, they should not be given more money, the worker class. Now the worker class is given more money. So what they'll do? They'll produce drunkards. That's all. In America, it is evident. They do not know how to use money. So therefore we see, fifty-two percent drunkards in your country. Eh? What is the percentage?

Devotee: I'm not sure, Srila Prabhupada.

Karandhara: It's probably close to that.

Prabhupada: At least fifty-percent.

Karandhara: Drunkards, debauchers.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Karandhara: Criminals.

Prabhupada: Harer nama harer nama... [Chaitanya-charitamrita Adi 17.21]. What is the time?

Hrdayananda: Quarter to seven.

Prabhupada: Oh. So we can...?

Karandhara: We can walk around a little bit.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Umapati: So how... Is it a waste of time then to present Krishna consciousness philosophy to someone who believes in doing your own thing? Do you think that that is a...?

Prabhupada: No. It is, it is... We should push Krishna consciousness as disinfecting agent. They're all infected, the whole world. So by chanting you disinfect.

Umapati: Just by our presence chanting then?

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore chanting is so important. Philosophy later on. First of all, cheto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing the heart.

Devotees: Jaya.

Prabhupada: Cleansing the heart. So by hearing this chanting their heart will be cleansed gradually. Then they will understand the real position.

Umapati: Oh. Jaya.

Hrdayananda: Oh, Krishna.

Prabhupada: So we have to do this chanting, not sit down in a solitary place, chanting himself. No, not like that. You are to vibrate the sound for the benefit of others.

Umapati: That is the mystical process of this movement.

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. So that their heart may be cleansed and they can understand. And if I sit down in a solitary place, for my benefit, that may be his benefit, but it is not very high class engagement. He must sacrifice for others. Pararthe prag utsri, utsri(?). That is the Chanakya Pandita's moral instruction, that "Everyone should sacrifice for the Supreme." Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is God Himself. He comes down to preach, to become sannyasi, and to take so much trouble all over India and everywhere, and giving instruction and sending men, "Go, go, go, go." What? Why you...? He's perfect. Why He's coming? He doesn't require. No. For the benefit of others, we must follow the footsteps of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. A Vaishnava's first qualification that he's unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Vaishnava cannot be unhappy. That Prahlada Maharaja says, that "I have no problem. I am unhappy seeing these people who are simply engaged in false activities and they do not care for Krishna consciousness. Therefore I am unhappy." This is Vaishnava's qualification. Not that "I am saved. That's all right." That is materialism. "Let others go to hell. I am saved." That is materialism. A Vaishnava should think always, "Oh, so many people are suffering. What I am doing for them?" That is Vaishnava. Para-duhkha-duhkhi.

Svarup Damodar: That is also said by scientists. They also say that "People are suffering. So we are trying to make them happy."

Prabhupada: That's all right, but if you do not know, how you'll make them happy? You'll create havoc.

Yasomatinandana: Janma-mrityu-jara-vyadhi [Bhagavad-gita 13.9].

Prabhupada: Yes, you do not know how to make them happy. First of all learn how to make them happy. You cannot manufacture your program to make them happy. That everyone is doing. But the more they are acting, the world becoming in chaotic condition. You know what is the standard of happiness, how to make them happy; then you can work. If a medical man, he has never seen a medical college and if he wants to treat patient, what is this?

Hrdayananda: A criminal.

Prabhupada: Yes. Quack. He must know how to make them happy. That is first business.